Ariana deVries

Hi, everyone. I'm excited to welcome Janette Drost to the podcast today. She currently lives in Elora, Ontario with her husband and four young boys. She's my sister in law and good, good friend. And we've had many chats over the years, and I'm so thrilled you get to listen in on this one. We're going to be talking about church and community. So thanks for joining me Janette.

Janette Drost

Well, thanks for having me, because I don't think I've ever been interviewed before. So this is really fun.

Ariana deVries

Yay. So exciting. Alright, well, we'll just jump right in with some of your history and your background with what it was like for you growing up in church. And your grandfather was a pastor. So tell me a bit about that.

Janette Drost

Yeah, my grandpa founded the church that I grew up in. So for me growing up it was a very secure environment. We were part of two big families in the church. My mom's side and my dad's side made up probably 70% of the church. It was very, very secure; cousins everywhere. I've got probably 70 first cousins alone, so...

Ariana deVries

It was a big family to marry into!

Janette Drost

Yes. Where everybody knows your name, Ariana, because you married in, but you had to remember dozens and dozens. So it was very secure. My grandparents’ house was actually attached to the church. So after church was done, all of us kids would run into the house and my grandma would make buns with cheese. And we'd watched my uncles play Nintendo. And I realize now, looking back, that we were, those of us who are family, pretty entitled, and in a different position than the other kids in church. I don't know that we would have done anything differently. But just growing up, it was very secure for us - very, very safe.

Ariana deVries

So what was your favourite part of church then?

Janette Drost

Favourite part, it still happens at that church, which we're not at the church anymore, but it is the weekly summer camp meetings where the entire church would set up trailers and tents and we would camp in the back for the whole week and kids would run around and there was a snack barn and everybody was in everybody else's business. And you know, sometimes you're borrowing kids and making dinner for who knows who. So even though we're not at the church anymore, I still go most years.

Ariana deVries

Yeah that just happened this past week.

Janette Drost

Yeah, it just happened this past week. And I didn't make it out this year, which I was really bummed about. I think you went right?

Ariana deVries

Yeah. We went It was great. Great fun.

Janette Drost

Yeah. To see grandparents and aunts and uncles, and also the people that I've grown up with, it's such a bonding experience as a church because that's when you're really living together in a camp environment - battling mosquitoes together. Lots of meetings, and kids’ programs that was always a highlight.

Ariana deVries

Yeah, that's where the real conversations and the community really happens.

Janette Drost

Yeah. And then as I got older, I was part of the youth group, which was also a small close knit and then I was part of the worship team, which was just starting, Al Katerberg, my mom's cousin. Al, if you're listening I'm so thankful for you, because that was huge for my growth as a teen. And feeling like I was part of a team that was actually doing something. Our music was pretty good for what we had back then. That was what launched me into eventually going to Australia. So all of those things combined, I'm so thankful for.

Ariana deVries

Awesome. Knowing about the large family that you come from, community was kind of built in for you already. So, you mentioned Australia. Why did you choose to leave home after high school and go to Australia?

Janette Drost

A few reasons. I think part of it, of course, was the adventure, the idea of going off on my own to one of the greatest best countries on earth, and it really was paradise. That was a big part of it, but it was actually my dad who strongly encouraged me to go to Bible College there. I don't know if I would have even thought to do it if he hadn't put the idea in my head and from there they really encouraged me; helping me getting applications and just the whole process, pushing me all along the way.

Looking at this now I've noticed over the last number of years, this is, of course, a broad generalization. But I see parents who released their kids and gently in love, push them to go out in the world. It makes you as a kid want to come back because you know you have a safe environment. But also that your parents believe in you, and you can do anything you want. Then you want to come back to that closeness after you've had a chance to stretch your wings. That, of course, is not for everybody.

But I think that happens often. Whereas I saw some of my other peers and friends, even ones at Bible College, who had been allowed to go by their parents, with the condition that we're expecting you're only going to go for a year and you're going to come back again. Either come back and be involved in your church you've grown up with, or the church would send you as a team to get resourced and equipped to come back to your church. Or if you find somebody to marry over there they better come back to Canada.

And I get it, but I'm thinking, oh my goodness. When our boys are grown hopefully I'm gonna have to listen to my own words here because when I see parents do that then the kids just want to leave and stretch their own wings and fight against that. So anyways. All that to say, I'm so thankful for parents who released me and let me go on the adventure. I wanted to also be part of the church culture there. They were really making huge inroads into worship team music, Christian worship music, changing the stereotype of church so I wanted to part of all that.

Ariana deVries

Yeah. So how did this experience affect you then?

Janette Drost

It inspired me hugely. I came away with tons of ideas. That's how I got my start in graphic design; by seeing how well things were done there and wanting to be part of that. It was also really good for me to be a small fish in a big pond.

In the church I grew up in I was involved in absolutely everything. I even remember in grade eight helping make the church bulletins and just doing everything. But then here you are, all of a sudden, one of many who are all trying to make it big there, and it was a really humbling experience but also incredibly inspiring. What I realized most of all is that it wasn't at all about the college courses. Not that they weren't great, but it was about the people that I met there and the life that I had there; small groups that were outside of school hours. I was part of the worship team, as well, which was another community. Those were really what left an impact on me. It wasn't so much the college itself.

Ariana deVries

Right. So were you able to find a sense of community while you were there? Or did you feel kind of like you're floating in this big sea of other people?

Janette Drost

Definitely daunting arriving. I didn't know a single person and here that college had matches up with with housemates. So we're all in different houses together. So right off the bat, we were placed with girls, some of who clicked and some who didn't. There were in first year housing, I'm sure you can imagine all the different scenarios. And you know, we had a bit of all of it. But the benefit was that there were so many of us all trying to make community at the same time, all trying to be friends. So the first week that we were there, all of us girls in our house just said, 'Hey, we're gonna have a party'. I think 70 people come over that first week. So it was easy to make friends. But the community part probably took a year, a year and a half. When I started interning with a couple and then being part of more of a close knit group (I was in their small group), that's when it started to feel like community. Before that it was just a bunch of friends hanging out.

Ariana deVries

And is that when you decided to take the extra year?

Janette Drost

Yep. A year and a half in, I was only gonna be there for two years, and I decided to stay for a third. I had this opportunity to intern and be even more involved in what was happening from a behind the scenes level; staff, not paid staff, but I was interning in the department and that was amazing.

Ariana deVries

Yeah. So looking back on that experience, what would be your one major takeaway from going away? And then coming home?

Janette Drost

Major takeaway when I first left would be that I came back with all these ideas for how to make church better. Ways that people would come into the church and 'Wow, I can't believe this is church'. So that was my initial main takeaway.

But now when I look back, I actually view quite a lot of things differently from a beliefs perspective; not that the core has ever changed, but the ways of doing things. I think you and I both understand different sides of it now and all about making it flashy and great. But now I look back and I see the core of what changed me in those years were the people that I was with. Even now I follow them on social media, and I don't see things the same way anymore. But man, I love you as a person. I'm so thankful for what you poured into my life. And I hope we can keep this friendship going. That is what I what I love about it.

Ariana deVries

That is so valuable to know and understand. Yeah, totally. So coming back, was it difficult for you to find your place again, because your family switched churches while you were gone? Right?

Janette Drost

Yes. So while I was in Australia, my family had their own transition, coming to the church that we're all part of now. That's a whole other story. So basically, I left the church I grew up in, went to Australia for three years, and came back to a brand new church. I'd already already been feeling - not that I felt constrained or confined at the church I grew up in at all - it just wasn't fitting anymore.

I think often when you leave your home to go, or you have some major life change, the people you've grown up with still view you the same. But really, you know that you have changed and you're different. So it actually was an amazing thing coming to a brand new church where I really had a fresh start. Of course, the downside of that is you don't have history with people. So that that took a while to build. But I have to acknowledge that I had it so easy coming back, because when I came back, my family and my siblings were already friends. I know my sister was already friends, and I just kind of slid into my siblings' friends.

Then it was a little while after that, that Dennis and I got engaged and married. So it all for me was easy; hugely because of my family paving the way in relationships, which I know when they started coming, they really made a huge point of being involved in everything. We're going to have people over, we're gonna be on the worship team. Pretty much my whole family was involved in that. So that's how it was for me. Oh, and then I should also mention, I came back and immediately had a job. I'm friends with our pastor's daughter. And they got to know me, and then it just snowballed a little bit.

Ariana deVries

Yeah. So you mentioned that you were on staff at church and volunteering on the worship team; heavily involved as soon as you came back, because that was the culture that you were in at college. So yeah, that would obviously translate into what you would want to do here. How do you feel that community and finding your place in church is translated into having real relationships with people?

Janette Drost

Oh, man, that is such a good question. Because it was easy for me as a single person and coming in being on staff I was able to be involved in absolutely everything and I think when we we have and I'm talking about the general evangelical church, not just our own but we have often these discipleship pathways, ways of getting people connected. And our goal is usually to get people plugged in and serving, right? Yeah. So if you're plugged in and serving, then you are able to be connected, because you're part of a team. And I get the value of that. And it sure did work for me at the time. But that was when I was single and able to be everywhere all the time.

Now that I'm married and have kids, I'm realizing that is not a practical, feasible way for most people to build community. If you're serving in children's ministry twice a month with different people, that's hard to do. That's certainly something that Dennis and I have been thinking a lot about - talking about a lot. How can we move past just the being plugged in at church and to truly doing life with people? Not just every time the doors are open, this flood of people come in, or different short events or sessions, but an ongoing way of building life together?

Ariana deVries

Yeah. Did you find that it was because you are a mom, and you have kids and life is a little bit different now that finding the time for real connection is hard?

Janette Drost

It is and it isn't. And this is where I again have to acknowledge I am coming at this, I think both of us, from such a privileged position. We have so much community - extended family. Even within the last week there was a baby shower, a birthday party, whatever else, and we're gonna have our small group again soon, and getting together with you. Which is great! There's there is no end of things for me. And I know that's not the case for everybody.

So I'm just picturing those of you who are listening and just aching and wishing; I so long for that. For that extended family group of friends. I just want to acknowledge that what you're doing is hard and it takes time. History is not built in just a few months or even a few years. So I just want to acknowledge that. If you're listening and thinking, Man, I long for that. I would love to have too many people to get together with. I hear that. And I recognize that this is such a privilege for us. It's such a good problem to have, if you will.

Yeah, my dad said the other day, 'So many people so little time'. And that is exactly how I feel.

Ariana deVries

So a couple years ago, you mentioned a small group, you and your husband started a group in your home. And I am a part of with my husband. And you have a couple other people that joined with you. So what was your motivation behind starting this in your home with others?

Janette Drost

Well, first of all, wait, how many years have we been doing it? I think it's been over five or six because Caleb was really little. I think it's been six years, which has flown. So yeah, we have right now six couples that we've been getting together with regularly. It's morphed a little bit. It's a bit of comings and goings over the years. And we alternate it with kids. I forget how many kids do we have right now like 16? They're all little and babies.

Ariana deVries

They're all under the age of seven.

Janette Drost

It's chaos. But I love it, too. Because it's I mean, it's so good for kids to see us in community as parents, not just them. So we decided six years ago that we wanted to do a small group at our church that was more than just semester based, because we've got those at our church, which are great for different topics - getting people together around an idea or a hobby or whatever. And those are fantastic. But we were looking for something thing more ongoing, where it's like, 'Hey, we're going to commit to each other that we're going to do this'.

We started off every week, and then we moved to every other week. We're just going to do this indefinitely and see where it goes. We called it Grassroots, because we wanted to get down to the grassroots of community and church being people more so than programs. So that has been such a gift to us. We had a second group going for a while. So we were alternating every week, which ended up just being being too much for us to be able to sustain, but what a gift these have been to us. We started out talking about Sunday messages and going over them. And then we have since moved on to all sorts of topics, sometimes just hanging out. And then it's also moved into someone has a baby and we all bring meals. It's felt like a community.

Ariana deVries

Right. It has! As the relationships have deep end and gotten stronger than you feel safe to be able to share what's really going on in your world. And that is so valuable and so important for being healthy.

Janette Drost

Yeah. We've had some pretty deep conversations. Ariana, we're in this group together. Yeah. And sometimes tears, lots of laughing. It's been real. And I remember, I've mentioned this a number of times to other people, but one night, we all went around, and we all disclosed who we had voted for in the federal election. And we were, as a group, completely split between the three different parties which was fascinating. But we all explained our reasons for it. And for every person, it was like, Oh, yeah, I totally get why you would have voted conservative or liberal or NDP? Uh, yeah, that makes sense. So we all disagree. You remember that night, right?

Ariana deVries

Yeah, totally. And it turned out, it was more about who we are as people than who you voted for.

Janette Drost

Exactly.

Ariana deVries

So we understood our values and what was important to us. And that was actually a really bonding night for a lot of us, I think. To understand, okay, this is what is important to you. And I can appreciate that.

Janette Drost

Yeah. And that we disagree on the topic or the decision or whatever. But as a person, I can hear your side of view. And I respect that. And I am learning myself, I am becoming a more rounded person because of your different opinion.

Ariana deVries

So good. So what would you say to somebody who's been trying to find community; to join a group? They've asked, they've invited, and they've done so much, but it's going nowhere? How can we help them?

Janette Drost

Oh, man, for those of you who have been doing that, I applaud you. That is tough. And I think there's always going to be the "in crowd" no matter what age you are. And you want to be part of that, of course. And I think I would just say, if you're trying and trying and you're not getting a no, but you're not getting a yes, either, and it just doesn't seem to be going anywhere. First of all, I would say, don't assume that you're the problem or that they don't like you. It could be like we've been talking about, there's so much those people may have going on that they really want to and it might happen.

And if it's with me personally keep asking! Really, keep asking. But if it's not going anywhere with the people you want to get in with, then you've got to look around you and think, man, who else is in the same position as me that also needs community? Let's just start our own and go from there.

I know that's easier said than done. But again, with building history, to come into an established group, for right or wrong, it's just the nature of it. It's going to take a long time before you have history. And that's where you really start to feel that you have family. So don't give up. Just keep at it. And in the meantime, find the people who also need the same thing that you do.

Ariana deVries

Yes. And that may take some guts. It may take some courage to ask, and to go maybe outside of what you feel is comfortable. But in the end, they may be your people.

Janette Drost

Exactly, yeah.

Ariana deVries

So, what do you feel is the church's role in helping people find community? Does the church have a role in helping with that?

Janette Drost

Okay, so here, I think we're again talking about the Evangelical Church, in general, across the board.

Ariana deVries

The Institution of church, not the people, necessarily.

Janette Drost

Right, yeah. Yeah, I think the church, obviously, the goal is people we all believe that. I think that right now, our church culture is to do that through programs, a lot of programs or events, different it was volunteering again, and all those, I think they have their place, but it's generally under the church umbrella as an institution. So we end up with a lot of busyness, a lot of volunteering, which has an appearance of being connected. If you're always there, when the doors are open, it seems like you're really plugged in. But I think that can also be hollow underneath.

Because I know I have so many acquaintances at church. We are always rubbing shoulders with people, but it's not always true community. Which is not the fault of the church. It's just the way the structure works. You see people frequently enough that you feel like you’re friends, but it's not frequent enough to actually do life together.

And I think social media also plays into this a lot. Because on social media, you feel like you know people right there disclosing their lives. So then someone posts something, and then you reply, Oh, that's so wonderful. Hey, we should get together. Right? There's a lot of this kind of thing.

Ariana deVries

Yes. Oh, man, yeah.

Janette Drost

Which it's not that the church is not doing well. It's that we as a culture have so many touch points at a surface level, which are all great, I would lose contact with people without that. But it's hard to build deep. You're building very shallow, but not deep.

Ariana deVries

That is a really good point. And we don't actually acknowledge the fact that our culture and our social media plays such a big factor into how we actually are doing church.

Janette Drost

Yeah, exactly. So I can, like I said, I can think of 20 people right off the top, friends that I would love to get together with. And then this is where, if I have done this to you, people who are listening...I so often come away from a Sunday saying to Dennis, 'Oh man, I talked to this person and this person, and I feel so energized'. Then I come home. And I think I'm letting all these people down that I am saying, let's get together. Or they're saying, let's get together. And yes, oh man, I would love to.

I can't. I don't have the bandwidth. And so that's something I’m really trying to figure out. How can I develop all these relationships? And of course, the answer is that you can't.

Ariana deVries

So how can we do this better? And really make people feel like they have a safe place to do life with others?

Janette Drost

As a church how can we do this? Yeah, of course, the best way is always going to be preaching good news, preaching freedom, preaching life, and at the end of every Sunday, people are coming away feeling like, Oh, I am so right with God, I can live out of this, it makes me want to talk to people about it and makes me want to spread the love that I've been given rather than feeling like, Okay, I've got a whole bunch of things I got to work on. So I don't really have time to invest in other people, because I've got to get my act together. I think that is that is the core of it all, is fostering that.

Also, we are in a day and age right now where things have changed so much. We have so many podcasts and resources and great speakers and teachings and books and whatever. That it's not that I don't get get fed on Sundays, if you know what I mean. I'm that in quotes, because that's our own responsibility. But it's made me realize, right now our generation, we don't always gravitate towards the idea of just being taught from the top down from some one, one or a team of people. We love to be part of conversation. Yeah, tossing around ideas. What resources have you found? What do you think about this idea?

And so sometimes, Dennis and I have thrown around crazy ideas of like, what if we just scrapped the whole structure that we have right now? And there was none. None of that. No preconceived idea of what church should look like. What would it be? And maybe there would not be no message from a preacher. Maybe it would be more of just a some sort of forum for sharing ideas, or extended childcare where we can talk in the foyer and encourage the deep real conversations. Because I still do love that we're all getting together on a Sunday morning. That's where all our people are together. I love that. The idea of house churches appeals to me, but then I think, 'Oh, but then I would never see so and so', right?

Ariana deVries

Yeah. And we've talked about it before, in that, some of the most valuable times that we have at church on a Sunday is when we're in the foyer talking with people and connecting with others that we haven't seen yet for a bit or since last week.

Janette Drost

Yeah, right. Exactly.

Ariana deVries

But especially when our kids are taken care of and we're able to focus on somebody, that has been really valuable.

Janette Drost

Dennis has been giving me a huge gift lately, we're often after church, he will come take finished of my arms are baby, he'll take baby in my arms and put a cup of coffee. Because he knows I would rather do the talking and he's fine to just chat with a couple of people, and I'm so thankful for that. So that is where real community happens. And that's where you end up saying, 'Hey, why don't you come over after church?' Then it starts to snowball from there. Whereas if you're in the service the whole time, and then you get out at the same time as your kids, and the kids are hungry and you know, hangry.

Ariana deVries

It's a bit of an awkward time of day.

Janette Drost

It is. So you kind of come away feeling like, Oh, I wish I could have connected with so and so. Making more space for that would be huge.

Ariana deVries

I am curious what your thoughts would be on helping people who are little bit more reserved when it comes to big groups of people and talking with others. Like the people that leave right after a service? Or who don't know who to connect with? In the big kerfuffle of people once the service gets let out.

Janette Drost

Yeah, the people who slip through the cracks.

Ariana deVries

Yeah, they get lost. How can we help them?

Janette Drost

Well, this is where I do strongly believe that small groups, long term small groups, are so beneficial. I'm thinking of a few friend that we've had, who were part of small group, that kind of morphed over the years and, and even though they're not part of our group, now, they connected with each other, right? While we were at the group. And now awesome. That brings me so much joy to know that even though I can't be best friends with everybody, although I sure love hanging out with them whenever I can, that they've latched on to each other now and have started their own. That has been so amazing.

So if we can foster or create some sort of structure, maybe it has to be started as an actual structure where you can sign up to be in a group, but that's a much less intimidating way for people to get to know each other. But it's not just temporarily saying, 'Hey, we'll take you on to be part of our family for as long as you want, or this works or whatever'.

Ariana deVries

Yeah. And that's so needed. People have a deep desire to know that somebody cares. And that somebody is going to be there for them when they go through hard stuff. Like, I don't know, where I would be today, if it hadn't been for my small community of people who were there for me through the hard stuff.

Janette Drost

I’m so with you, yeah.

Ariana deVries

We've had our fair share of struggles; I've shared on the podcast about some of it. And while we were going through it, we had our people, our tribe, our close knit community, who said, no matter what happens, we're here for you. And I feel like that's what people need, they need to know that they are safe.

Janette Drost

Yep. And also, that's an interesting point that you needed your small group, as well as pouring into other people you were able to receive from others. And I read an article a while back, that was talking about churches and their communities in their local neighbourhood community, and how often neighbourhoods don't really trust the churches, because churches are always saying, we're going to put on something for you. This is for you. But the article was saying churches need to be able to receive from their community. That when you have a two way relationship, as neighbours or groups, that's when you actually build real friendship, because you're saying not just I have something to offer you, and I'm putting myself in the position of strength over you. But I'm putting myself in a vulnerable position. I need you as much as you need me as a church, not just as individuals. So I thought that was really powerful.

Ariana deVries

Yes. So how do you think that we could work together with our neighbourhood community as well as our church community? Do you have any ideas on that?

Janette Drost

That's something that I honestly, I don't know. I haven't given it much thought in terms of institution. I'm more thinking of it in terms of small, intimate relationship community. As an institution, I don't I don't know. Maybe we just need to stop putting on so many programs for the community and just start having more small groups and inviting our own neighbours to our own small groups and letting it grow organically. Like grassroots that people come in rather through the top funnel of programs, they come in through the bottom of friendships. Yeah.

Ariana deVries

So good. Well, thank you so much, Janette. I really appreciate what you have to say, and your thoughts and input on this topic. Because I know that you have thought about it a lot over the years. And I mean, you have a Connect group that we do this every other week, and it's your life. Learning how to do community and learning how to do it well, and I so appreciate that you guys took the leap, to do something that nobody else is really doing, to welcome people into your home. And to say, we're going to do this and we're going to do this for the long haul. You can stick with us if you want to; you don't have to, but you can count on us.

Janette Drost

And it's been such a gift to us, too. And I would also say, you know, Jesus talks about the narrow road. I‘m wondering more and more...I don't think mainstream Christianity is necessarily the narrow road, because we have all our signposts - it's all paved for us, the discipleship pathways to follow, you know.

Your road is laid out in front of you. But when you start asking the honest questions and being real with where you're at, that's, where you find your true community, the people who are willing to walk down the narrow road with you of wondering, or exploring, or questioning as a way to learn, grow, and hear each other's ideas.

Ariana deVries

And that's something that I love about having our small group is that I feel safe to share the crazy thoughts that I might have about whatever topic it may be. I know that you guys aren't going to go running, and you're not gonna just leave us; leave the friendship.

Janette Drost

Yeah, exactly.

Ariana deVries

Thank you.

Janette Drost

Thank you as well.

Ariana deVries

Thank you for joining me today, being on the podcast, sharing your heart for others, and just being real about your journey.

Janette Drost

Ah, this has been great. I really enjoyed this. Thank you.

Ariana deVries

Awesome.